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bleeding the tanks (Read 4781 times)
llitwin
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bleeding the tanks
20.10.2006 at 13:23:27
 
Dr Lampotang:  
 
When I went through your anesthesia machine check tutorial (which is unbelievably awesome), I thought of a question re the FDA machine check.
 
I was taught to disconnect hoses from the pipeline source, open and close the tanks on the machine, and then "bleed" the tanks by turning up the flows until the tank gauges read zero.  Is this practice incorrect/not included in this FDA check?  Thanks.  
 
Lenore Litwin
 
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« Last Edit: 20.10.2006 at 16:35:19 by Forum Admin »  
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Re: bleeding the tanks
Reply #1 - 20.10.2006 at 16:33:53
 
Lenore:
 
Thank you for sharing your question with the bulletin board.   It is a common misconception that the pipeline has to be disconnected as part of the FDA pre-use check.  The O2 pipeline only needs to be disconnected if the O2 cylinder pressure gauge is already reading a pressure of 1,000 psig or more before starting the pre-use check.  
 
Remember that in the 1993 FDA pre-use check the purpose of disconnecting the O2 pipeline is to depressurize the O2 cylinder pressure gauge.  As an extreme example, if the O2 cylinder pressure gauge is already reading zero when starting the pre-use check, it is a waste of time and effort to disconnect the O2 pipeline to bleed down the O2 cylinder pressure gauge because it is already depressurized.  
 
Another misconception is that the non-O2 tanks have to be checked.  In the 1993 FDA pre-use check, only the O2 tank pressure has to be checked to be above 1,000 psig.  
 
See http://vam.anest.ufl.edu/FDApreusecheck.pdf for the official version of the 1993 FDA pre-use check.  
 
A version of the 1993 FDA pre-use check that incorporates my edits/comments is available at http://vam.anest.ufl.edu/fdacheckout.html  
 
Hope this helps,
Sem Lampotang
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llitwin
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Re: bleeding the tanks
Reply #2 - 21.10.2006 at 06:05:14
 
Thank you, Dr. Lampotang.  I'm sorry to say that I'm still confused.  If one opens and closes a cylinder, there should always be a pressure reading on the cylinder gauge unless you have an empty tank, correct?  
 
So, in that case, to depressurize (bleed) one would need to disconnect the pipeline at every machine check and turn up the flow of oxygen on the flowmeters to depressurize the cylinder gauge to zero.  Do I have this right?  ???  Thanks.  Lenore
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Re: bleeding the tanks
Reply #3 - 24.10.2006 at 11:33:50
 
Lenore:
 
Step 2a of the 1993 FDA checklist states:
"Open O2 cylinder and verify at least half full (1000 psi)"
 
Two comments on the technique you were taught:  "disconnect hoses from the pipeline source, open and close the tanks on the machine, and then "bleed" the tanks by turning up the flows until the tank gauges read zero."  
 
1.  It seems to imply that the air and N2O tanks also need to be checked.  That is not the case - Step 2a makes reference to checking only the O2 cylinder.  
 
2.  The technique you mentioned also assumes that the previous person who used the machine followed the prescribed technique and that therefore the O2 cylinder pressure gauge already reads zero.  What happens if the previous person (a) did not follow the same technique or (b) did not check the machine or (c) used the cylinder all of which could result in the O2 cylinder pressure gauge reading a non-zero value?  
 
In the technique you describe, it would be safer to bleed the O2 cylinder pressure gauge down to zero BEFORE opening and closing the tank and then bleed them again to zero afterwards as a COURTESY to the next person who will use the machine.  Let me illustrate by the following scenario.
 
a.  The O2 cylinder gauge is not depressurized after it has been opened for a pre-use check and reads 2,000 psi.  
b.  The O2 cylinder from the machine is borrowed and when returned it has only 200 psi left in it.  Using the technique you describe, if there is no O2 outflow with the O2 pipeline disconnected, the O2 cylinder pressure gauge will incorrectly continue to read 2,000 psig instead of the actual pressure in the O2 cylinder.  
 
I realize this is confusing and dependent on the practice at each institution.  Please let me know if you have further questions.  I'll be happy to answer them.  Thanks.
 
Sem
 
 
 
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Re: bleeding the tanks
Reply #4 - 24.10.2006 at 13:03:39
 
Lenore:
 
I realized that I did not explicitly answer your two questions above.
 
1.  QUESTION:  "If one opens and closes a cylinder, there should always be a pressure reading on the cylinder gauge unless you have an empty tank, correct?"  
ANSWER:  Correct.  But please note that if you have the pipeline disconnected and a high flow of O2 on the flowmeter, the pressure reading on the cylinder will quickly bleed down to zero.
 
2.  QUESTION:  "... to depressurize (bleed) one would need to disconnect the pipeline at every machine check and turn up the flow of oxygen on the flowmeters to depressurize the cylinder gauge to zero.  Do I have this right?  
ANSWER:  Depressurization of the O2 cylinder pressure gauge after reading the O2 cylinder pressure is a courtesy to the next user (who might be yourself).  It is not explicitly required in the 1993 FDA checklist.  
Yes, you have it right.  To depressurize the O2 cylinder pressure gauge, the O2 pipeline supply must be interrupted and a draw of O2 (with the O2 flush, the O2 flowmeter, or the auxiliary ball in tube O2 flowmeter) must be created to bleed down the O2 cylinder pressure gauge.  This can be demonstrated in the Configurable VAM in the VAM instructor area (for which you purchased access) which includes a simulation of the auxiliary ball in tube O2 flowmeter.  
 
Sem Lampotang
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Re: bleeding the tanks
Reply #5 - 26.10.2006 at 19:11:24
 
Thank you, Dr. Lampotang!   Grin
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Re: bleeding the tanks
Reply #6 - 14.08.2009 at 13:42:43
 
Please accept the following with my hope it sheds some historical light on the "bleeding the tanks" discussion.
 
In older generations of anesthesia gas machines (i.e., those designed with a "Fail-Safe" or OFPD mechanism but not designed with a proportioning mechanism such as a Link-25 or an ORMC), it certainly was possible to deliver 100% nitrous oxide. This error could easily occur if the cylinder's oxygen line was pressurized between the cylinder and the "Fail-Safe" of OFPD mechanism. If someone, for instance, opened and closed an oxygen tank, but did not depressurize the line, the "Fail-Safe" or OFPD device would remain in the open position thereby allowing for 100% nitrous oxide to be delivered. Remember, these machines had no proportioing mechanism as do current machines to act as a next line of defense against a hypoxic mixture.  
The stepped-down pressure differential between the wall and cylinder sources of oxygen did not allow for the cylinder to be depressurized without disconnecting the hose from the wall. And so, it was wise (though few people probably did it) to actually disconnect from the wall oxygen prior to checking tank pressure. Then, after bleeding the tank, one woud reconnect to the wall. (I used to teach students to always hold the wall oxygen tubing in their hand to assure I would not forget to reconnect to the wall prior to the anesthetic.) Nowadays, with the presence of our proportioning mecanisms, I believe it is not as critical to disconnect.
 
Hope this adds some insight.
Would be happy to hear other thoughts.
Tom Obst
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